Debate is still raging over the ‘wrong’ AFL date that fell short of the Geelong and Sydney flag count

Colin Carter has sparked much debate and controversy with his proposal to change the start date of the VFL/AFL from 1897 to 1870.

What is beyond doubt is his ability to attract a crowd.

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AFL boss Gillon McLachlan called it a “tough room” on Tuesday as Carter presented his book Football Forgotten Years.

The audience included historian Geoffrey Blainey, former Carlton President Ian Collins, former Hawthorn President Jeff Kennett, current St Kilda President Andrew Bassatt and a host of current AFL leaders including Chairman Richard Goyder and his Predecessor Mike Fitzpatrick.

The book continues a passion project by the former AFL commissioner and Geelong president, who argues that the start date of what was then the VFL should be pushed back to bring the years of the Victorian Football Association back to 1870.

At the end of 1896, eight clubs broke up to form the VFL.

The obvious outcome of Carter’s argument would be a radical change in what matters most to all football fans – who won the premierships.

It looks like Carlton and Essendon have 16 and Collingwood is one behind.

If Carter has his way and the VFA flags are counted, Carlton would rise to 22 and Essendon to 20.

Geelong would pick up a whopping seven extra flags and move up to 17, while Collingwood would win just one more and share 16 with Melbourne. Sydney would also benefit, going from five to ten.

“I’m not here today to confirm Colin’s thesis…but I’m not here to dispute his conclusions, either,” McLachlan said at the launch.

“That’s up to our historians, our clubs, to scrutinize and no doubt widen the debate.”

Carter insists that the only reason the AFL story begins in 1897 is the acrimonious politics between what was then the VFL and the VFA, which came to a head in the 1920s.

“This will be an issue for the commission to resolve, and all I hope is that the AFL, as guardians of the code, establishes a heritage committee to look into the 1870 case,” Carter said.

“For the past 100 years, since the mid-1920s, the AFL has celebrated 1897 as its start. This date is wrong.”

Despite his club’s bitter rivalry with Geelong and the fact that Hawthorn would not win any flags by changing the date to 1870, Kennett says Carter’s work deserves applause.

“I was there for the big debates at the commission and club presidents’ meetings a few years ago, and it was very, very vocal and personal,” Kennett said.

“But I have to say it’s a code and whether it’s a business or a sport someone plants an acorn.

“I don’t accept Colin being motivated by Geelong… he’s put in a lot of work. I’m not against the concept that the history of the code is worth including.

“There’s a lot of substance in what he says.”

PREMIERES FROM 1897

16-Carlton, Essendon

15 – Collingwood

13 – Hawthorn, Melbourne, Richmond

11 – Fitzroy/Brisbane

10 – Geelong

5 – South Melbourne/Sydney

4 – North Melbourne, West Coast

2 – Adelaide, Western Bulldogs

1 – Port Adelaide, St Kilda

PREMIERE FROM 1870

22 – carton

20 – Essendon

17 – Geelong

16 – Collingwood, Melbourne

13 – Hawthorn, Richmond

12 – Fitzroy/Brisbane

10 – South Melbourne/Sydney

4 – North Melbourne, West Coast

2 – Adelaide, Western Bulldogs

1 – Port Adelaide, St Kilda